Is Taylor Swift a lyrical genius or is she just mid?

Can I like make a disclaimer to the Swifties just quickly? Go ahead, camera's right there. Wow, we are human beings. We love other people, other people love us. I'm sure you feel the same. Hopefully you have people in your real life and not just Taylor Swift to love, you know? Don't come after us. We're just people. People are going to hate Taylor Swift. People are going to dislike Taylor Swift. And people are not going to care about Taylor Swift, and that is a fact of life that you need to come to terms with. And that's okay. Also, you're a [bleep]. You're like, you're, you're actually a [bleep]. This is The Last Stop with Kareem Rama. This episode is presented by Reset, with guests comedian and feminist crusader Mary Nay. The pop culture Socrates John Caram. Monica joined by known social ecology enjoyer Yido Travis and good [bleep] poster, neoliberal hell, Kareem. All only one who, welcome to The Last Top with Kareem Rama. The most sophisticated show about the stupidest subject. We have a great show for you today.

Taylor Swift seems like she's all anybody ever talks about these days. I mean, you can't throw a rock in this city without hitting a Taylor Swift fan, and buddy, I throw a lot of [bleep] rocks. Of course, there are plenty of Taylor Swift haters too. Kanye West famously hates her for having the most annoying face anybody's ever seen. I don't really keep up with the news. I'm more of an A24 person myself. Everyone has an opinion on Taylor Swift, from my 12-year-old niece to my 75-year-old niece and all of my nieces in between. But is she one of the greatest lyricists of all time? Debatable to say the least. Very debatable to say most. Look, I think that "All Too Well: Taylor's Version" is undeniably a great song. It really is. But why is America so obsessed with Taylor Swift when we still haven't found out who killed Jeffrey [Music]? Personally, I think old school musicians were the best. Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Tina Turner, Bruno Mars, the guy who wrote the O'Reilly Auto Parts jingle. Lyrics and old songs used to have such meaning. They used to tell complex stories. They were poetry. For example, Jimi Hendrix says, "Hey Joe." I mean, has there ever been a better song about a nice warm cup of coffee in the morning? Since then? Hell no. Now in the modern age of music, Taylor Swift is heralded by many. Heraldo Rivera? Uh, is the word "heralded"? Heralded. Heralded. Herald. Now in the modern age of music, Taylor Swift is, uh, heralded. Heralded. I don't know how to say that word, dude. I'm ESL. Been holding on to that. Think we all were. Let people pronounce words wrong. Did you not see Subway T? I appreciate it, guys. Now in the modern age of music, Taylor Swift is praised by many as Bob Dylan for girls, which, which I guess I kind of understand, but me personally, I prefer Bob Dylan for boys because I am a boy. A big boy. Some may even call me a man. But let's hear this whole thing out and see what this billionaire is all about. Bring me the take, guys.

You didn't find my monologue funny at all? Good God. Were supposed to be play the take. So what's your take? Taylor Swift is one of the greatest lyricists of all time? 100% disagree. What do you think about Eminem? Eminem is also great. They can't both be in the same category. Give me a Taylor Swift lyric that's so wonderful your enemies will defeat themselves before you have a chance to swing. Sounds like something I would write in my notes out. No, absolutely not. It's, it's actually poetic and prophetic. Wait, okay, I'm going to, because I respect women, I'm going to let you sound off. Okay, preach. I don't think there's ever been a musical artist who has accurately portrayed what it's like to grow up as a girl from the time she's 12 years old to becoming a woman. Taylor Swift is basically the Bob Dylan of young women. Wow. W, wow. Yes. What about that song "Shake It Off"? Can you admit that it was a mistake thing? I think a lot of her singles that have been put out don't actually show the scope of her artistry. If you go deep cut in her discography, you will find that she is a musical genius and that there is a narrative that has been created by the media to say that she only writes songs about breakups or she has these sort of like vapid pop songs. I think what you're trying to say, let me, man, explain this to you. I think what you're trying to say is separate the art from the artist because she's awful and annoying, but she makes okay music. I think that there's like a misrepresentation that like songs that appeal to a lot of people don't have nuance. But I think those are some of the hardest songs to actually write. That's kind of like the music that I make. I don't know if we could. Who do you think is a better artist? Taylor Swift or Beyoncé? Does, end the episode there. Answer that last question. That's where we can start. Answer that last question. Beyoncé is an incredible artist. I don't think, I don't, don't try to appeal to me as a Black man. No, I'm being for real. I, I love Beyoncé. I love Beyoncé. Do you love her more than Taylor Swift? I have like a different sort of relationship to Beyoncé because she was, I actually listened to Beyoncé's music more when I was growing up than Taylor Swift's music. This is all new? Yeah, yeah. You want to go sit on the other side? Make room for her. This is, that's, you're a late. And then I went to college. I met a lot of really hardcore Oakland Bay Area lesbians who told me that Taylor Swift was one of the most important feminist um icons that was alive at the time, and I literally was like, "What are you talking about?" Can we phone a friend right now? Like, we, we can, we get them on FaceTime? They're going to kill us. When I became more comfortable with myself, I was able to look back at a lot of from music and relate to it in a way that I hadn't related to it when I was that age. And I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I do think like relatability is like a bit of a fallacy when it comes to pop music and embracing music. Because if relatability was the primary driver of people's consumption, everybody would have an extremely narrow fan base of people who looked exactly like them, were the same exact age as them, had the same exact geographic background as them. Part of what's so fascinating about pop music and, and all categories of music is it offers you windows into experiences that you may or may not have had. And, you know, Taylor, I think, is relatable to a certain set of fans who she's telling version of their, she telling a version of those stories. But I don't think you have to have lived those stories specifically in order to appreciate Taylor or anybody else. I mean, when the first Taylor single came out, which was "Tim McGraw," I didn't have that experience, but immediately I was like, "This is a great songwriter. This is a really good singer. This is someone who understands song construction." And this is someone who's about to basically [bleep] all over the country music industry. That was like extremely obvious. That was your first take? Immediately? I mean, immediately, like '08 or whatever you were in. 100%. 100%. You saying you didn't have the experience of being Tim McGraw? Is that what you're saying? First of all, uh, "Live Like You Were Dying," that's one thing that's very important to know. Uh, I used to have a small mustache, so maybe, maybe that big hat. Yeah. Um, but it's hard because I think part of the dismissal of Taylor in certain circles is that it's the opposite of relatability, right? It's like she's writing about something that I didn't live through, and there are people who I think are potentially ungenerous who say, "Well, I don't understand that experience, and therefore I want to keep it at arm's length." For me, I listen to a lot of music that I don't relate with at all. I love, for example, Playboy Carti. I don't even know what he's saying, but I [bleep] with it heavy. I think he's one of the greatest living. They also don't speak English? It doesn't matter. The relatability doesn't matter. I just think the songs, maybe from a, from a technical standpoint, they're probably good, but are they that good? Like I don't think a lot. Like I think "All Too Well" is good.