Ira Glass Explains Why I’m Listening to Podcasts Wrong

We used to play poker together. I remember one of my first interactions with you. The game started at 9:00. I think you showed up at 11:30 p.m. [laughter]

I don't think that's true.

And I feel like you were having a little bit of like a some sort of day.

You showed up. I think you were already a little drunk and you asked for the whisk.

Yeah, that definitely leads to really good poker playing, I'm sure.

No, they took your money. Yeah, we all do. [music]

So, what's your take?

Every podcast is better at 2.0 speed, double speed, or 1.7 speed.

100% disagree. I I I can't get behind that.

What are you talking about?

If you're going to listen to something, you should just listen to it. I don't understand why you would want to listen to it faster.

Listen, at the 1.7 2.0, first of all, your brain can take it in. You totally can get the information and you can listen to more podcasts,

I guess.

And also, just like some podcasts are actually better at the faster speed, there are some podcasts with slow talkers, right? That's true.

There's podcasts that I love listen to every day in the daily. Michael Barbaro, that guy's good, but he's better at 1.7 or 2.0.

You think Barbaro is a a slow talk? I think he's a fast talker.

He's a talker in clumps, if we want to get

Yeah. He goes, he goes,

It's a Michael Barbaro. And then there's a pause is the deal.

Yeah, exactly. And but like when you speed up double speed, he sounds like he's talking at normal pacing.

I think audio is so important.

Oh, for sure.

And so I think that listening to something on 2x speed is weird because it does not emulate real life.

Well, there are people who talk at 1.7. There are people who talk fast.

Do you talk at 1.7?

I talk fast sometimes. I talk fast. We're both fast guys. I think it's fascinating as a person who creates an hour of content every single week. Yes.

For the past 30 years.

Yes.

That you're okay with people just going literally it's the equivalent of I'm going to fast forward through this.

It's No. No. It is literally I'm going to fast forward through this episode.

You should try it. You'll see.

What about music?

No, not music.

What about movies?

Movies? Yes. Some movies? Well, like I don't know. I've never done it with a movie, but I have done it with TV [laughter] Shows. YouTube. Definitely. How can you watch YouTube at regular speed?

I think you're in a rush. You're in a rush. You want to get more in.

I'm trying to live a life where I'm filling myself with pleasure and joy.

When you go to a restaurant, do you eat at double speed or do you sit and you enjoy your plate of lasagna?

That's a really good point.

I'm an active listener and watcher. So, for me, it is a big commitment to listen. Like, I'm not a passive listen. I'm not like I'm going to throw this podcast out of my house.

No. If I'm listening, I'm listening.

I can't even do it on the subway. I can't I can't do it on the train.

Wait, wait, wait. You You can't listen to a podcast like on a subway when you're

I get distracted. There's so many lights and sounds and people and and I'm serious.

What do you do on the subway?

I get to sit here like this. [laughter]

I I do.

Is that true? Yeah. And you just wait for your stop.

I'm just going like this. And what I used to do is I used to look at my phone, right? And I would be sitting like this.

Yeah.

And I'd be looking at my phone. But then people started taking pictures of me and being like, "Oh, I just saw Kareem or the Subway takes guy on the train." And then all the pictures were so disgusting of me being like that. I was like, "I can't get caught looking like that. It just looks so unattractive."

Are you saying that [laughter] That you don't enjoy your phone on the train like any proper New Yorker out of vanity?

Yes. It's [laughter] Not

I don't want to get papped.

You're depriving yourself human pleasure of looking at your phone.

I Dude, I used to read the news every single morning and now I just sit like this and I tried reading, but then guess what? Then people take a picture of what I'm reading. I'm serious. It's a And then I'm exposed cuz sometimes I'm reading weird stuff.

Don't be scared of who you are, baby. Don't be scared. Listen to me now. I feel bad for you. Like your phone is there for you to enjoy.

I mean, I enjoy my phone a lot. I'm always enjoying my phone. So on the train, I'm enjoying my mind and not another guy's mind. Cuz if I were to listen to American Life, which is your show, then I wouldn't be enjoying my mind. I'd be enjoying your mind.

So rather than enjoy any So when I'm on the train, it's my my mind's time.

But dude, that makes the the train like a time suck out of your day and out of your life force. You're you're achieving nothing. You're you're absorbing nothing. You're you're you're staying you're staying inert.

I didn't take you as a hustle culture guy. You didn't you didn't mean to be productive on the damn train.

No, you could just enjoy yourself.

That's the only time aside from the shower where I'm enjoying myself is on the train.

I also don't want to get like robbed. I feel like if you're looking at your phone or reading, that's when people steal stuff from you or punch you in the head.

Everybody is on their phone on the train except for the one guy stealing phones. [music]

I want to talk about This American Life.

Okay.

You started it 30 years ago. 25 years ago. 30 years ago. It's been on for 30 years. Obviously, it was not a podcast.

No.

Radio. There were no podcasts yet.

How have things changed from then until now?

I mean like for one thing, podcasting doubled our audience. You know, we had a million and a half, two million people as a radio show. Double because people were hearing us podcast. And then um in terms of making the show, it's not any different. You know, we like like the like the things about our show that we like, which is just like getting out there, getting people's stories, like we do the same thing now.

There's a lot of people out there that are resistant to change. When podcasting came about, you were like, "Sounds good."

Yeah. It's just another way to get the product.

You were like, "It's it's fine."

Yeah.

And now when people refer to you as a podcaster, you're you're also you're fine.

It's totally fine. Yeah. Like I like making stuff and and uh I want to get stuff out. How do you choose which stories

To put on the show?

Yeah.

Basically, what'll happen is we'll have somebody will pitch a story. You like constantly pitching each other's stories on the staff and somebody will pitch a story. We're like, "Okay, that story is good enough. We can invent a show around it." And then we'll invent a theme to go with that story and then we just go looking for other stuff through a combination of like calling friends, calling writers who want to get on the air, just trying to think of like what would be fun to put with that.

Do you ever get worried that you're going to run out of ideas?

Constantly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Coming up with the ideas is the hardest part of making anything.

And you produce an episode every single week.

We do one every other week. It's a little more than one every other week. So it's like between 26 and 30 a year.

So it's a lot. It's a lot. You were never not in production.

Always on.

Yeah. It's hard.

How's it feel to be always on?

I remember when in the early days of the show when it was just a staff of four people, basically any minute of the day I was either working or asleep. And I remember like lying in bed and having thought of like I signed up to do this for how long? And then she was like forever. Wait, what? And then like Yeah. Yeah. So it's a weird it's a weird agreement you make.

It is a weird agreement that you make.